Regular racers are probably aware that we have been doing some testing to try to find a suitable brushless combo that can be run in 540. The primary purpose of teh tests is to find a motor that is no faster than the 540 and preferably that can run along side the current 540 motor – at least for an interim period.
Some test have been done with open 21.5 motors (like the SP V3 for example) and they have proved to be just a little too quick. Other test have been done – and are continuing with a fixed timing 21.5 and fixed non adjustable ESC – these tests have been encouraging and the drivers that have used these systems are very happy that they would be suitable for the purpose. Other tests have been done with an open speedy with a 25.5 motor and those tests are also continuing.
I need to state again that the only legal motor for 540 in Qld is the grey can brushed Johnson motor. If points etc at your club matter to you then this is the only motor you can run at this time. No club in Brisbane has made any decisions about including brushless in 540 – this is important please note.
Also it’s important that you make your views known to your club re the future of 540 and whether we should stick with the Johnson or go with a brushless equivalent – Shane Hyde at Logan is calling for 540 drivers to express their views.
Now I need 2 experienced 540 drivers, preferably racers at Logan, who are willing to test another system – I am having 3 of the Venom systems sent up that have been used for the testing in Sydney and seem to have gained a strong support base there. We want drivers who have some 540 race times to their name at Logan so we can compare their times with 540 against their times with the venom and also against the times with the other systems we are trialing. If you want to run one of these systems for a few meets please get in touch with me. Systems are kindly supplied by Venom for the testing. Thank you Venom.
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66 responses to “Calling all 540 drivers”
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I would be interested in helping with the other option Dave.
As a current 540 – I would love to see a brushless option allowed in 540. I think a ESC with ZERO or fixed ESC be used.LikeLike
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Good work Robert – I’ll get one out to you.
Also be good to test one of the SP motors we are using with your SP V1 ESC see if there is any difference.LikeLike
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Dave chase would b happy to run one of them if u like.
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No worries – when ever you want to race 540 at Logan I’ll have a unit for you to use.
Better still I heard from Angelo that Hobby Wing have a zero timing ESC called Justock and a similar no frills 21.5 motor. I haven’t been able to get hold of one as yet but would love to see it in the trials and you might be the man for that.LikeLike
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Being an ex 540 gun myself 😆 I think it should go down the path of fixed timing esc for sure with 21.5 motor.
I reckon Gary should through one of those Venoms systems in, he wasnt too bad in 540 😛LikeLike
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I would love to see a brushless option allowed in 540. I think a ESC with ZERO or fixed ESC be used.
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Hi Dave
I would love to chuck a combo in the MI4LP for some testing .
If you need any help please let me know .
Ps : how big is the Venom ESC ?LikeLike
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Hey heavy, if you bring one down with you to the GC on Sunday, I can give it a run to compare against your SP.
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All these Factory drivers keep popping up …………If you need a privateer to do any testing, let us know 😉 😉
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Hi Dave,
I would be happy to experiment with the speedy for you, it would be more interesting to you to compare it against the times i have been posting lately in 540, rather than drivers that haven’t been racing 540 recently.
B1LikeLike
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Hi Dave
Is it possible to set up a poll for this on this Website e.g
Wayne YESLikeLike
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previous should have read
Wayne YES to A new brushless combLikeLike
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Brad, We’ll have enough time for that but I am also interested in seeing how they go against your speed passion combo on the track.
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Wayne. It’s possible but not necessarily appropriate at the moment – maybe something the clubs might like to consider as we get further into the testing.
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B1 is the 540 GUN!!!
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?
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Hi vazzo, i am not the gun, i the cannon lol
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Would there be any interest in running a Demo class at this years Electric Titles with a selected system or systems.
Also has anyone done any testing with a 17.5 with no timming.LikeLike
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Good idea but I suspect that there might be a problem or 2 with the plan. The only system that people have with sufficient numbers is the Speed Passion Club race 21.5 system and those that have it will be planning on going back to old tech for the Qld Titles to run the real event not the Demo.
The original club race combo that I bought came with an untimeable 17.5 and it is way too fast for 540 – same speed as stock was last year. Still got the motor if anyone wants to test itLikeLike
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Probably should have explaned the 17.5 better, my thoughts are with the stock class, 17.5 motor with a untimed speed control, I personally think the present speedies have gone to far away from the meaning of spec class racing.
I would prefer a unadjustable motor and speedie made to a class spec and let the driver learn how to set up a car and drive it.LikeLike
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Why are we talking 17.5 when the main game is 540 with a fixed timing 21.5 and fixed non adjustable ESC or similar
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David can you delete my posts please.
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I apologise to John as I should have read the part Probably should have explaned the 17.5 better, my thoughts are with the stock class, 17.5 motor with a untimed speed control, better
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You have a valid point John, 540 and Stock arent recognised at the worlds are they?? So making changes shouldnt effect the class to much. These new speedies are a massive pain in the butt to get right 😆
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John – your posts are welcome on this site anytime.
Wayne, it’s drawing a very long bow indeed to call 540 the main game in RC – certainly it’s the main subject of this thread but there is no doubt that our leaders are going to have to draw us into a discussion about stock and where we go with stock at some stage very soon – and I would welcome that discussion if it takes place on my site or elsewhere.
Vazzo you are right about the worlds but closer to home and more relevant is the Australian scene and I think it’s important that we do with stock whatever the other states and national rules are going to be, that’s from teh point of view of someone who likes to race Interstate ocassionally.
Anyway this is a 540 thread and I see the stock debate has commenced on the rctech ORRCA thread so lets take it there for the momentLikeLike
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Reading through the posts again so far there seems to be a majority for untimed speedies and Brushless, as an administrator, for a Novice class I’d like to see something what’s easy to scrutineer and easy to setup in a car.
Also keep in mind is we at ORRCA was able to control the class (Novice, 540) with the use of the Johnson 540 motor, once we move to a Brushless system we then bring the speedie and motor into the equation, we at ORRCA can’t test all the motor and speedie combinations and have a aproved list.
This is why we have moved to have approved lists, eg ROAR battery and motor lists, ROAR can set a specification that the manufactures have to follow, ROAR then tests these motors and batteries and if they pass are put on an approved list.
This system makes it fairer for drivers to pick their choose of motor or battery and know they will have equal level of equipment in there chosen class.
It also makes it better for administrators to set rules and clubs to scrutineer events.
I believe the Novice/540 class should be the cheapest and easiest class to set up for and run, as the skill level increases we need to also think about progression to the next class, this is most likely Stock.
At the monment there is too bigger jump to Stock, from a Brushed speedie and a Johnson to a adjustable 17.5 and multiadjustable speed control.
If you haven’t yet looked at the ROAR approved Sportsman Division ESC’s list ( I’ve put the list on the ORRCA thread on RC Tech) there is a few speedies on this list that aren’t timing adjustable and would be cheap to buy like 2nd hand Novak GTB’s and the orignal LRP Sphere Brushless plus some of the new AE speedies included with some of there RTR cars.
My feelings with picking a system to run would be use an untimed speedie and pick a motor class eg: 21.5/25.5 from the approved lists that’s similar to a Johnson 540, (just like we did when we first started to run Brushless in Stock, Novak 13.5 bonded rotor)
At club level the new comers can run there Johnson’s with the Brushless guy’s untill they can afford to buy a 2nd hand or new Brushless system.
As more and more RTR cars will come out with Brushless systems and with ROAR making a ruling for a class with untimed Speed controlls I’m sure more manufactures will make speedies with no timing advance this will make the choose a lot easer.
If the system picked is a little faster than the Johnson maybe at club level allow the silver can 540 until we get through this change over period.
Please keep in mind ORRCA Qld only sets rules for the Qld Tiles, clubs can run what they like at there club meetings, at this years Electric Titles we will be using the Johnson 540 for what maybe the last time, so please have a good think about what we may use next year, think about the big picture and what’s happening elsewhere, also think about what’s best for new commers to the sport.LikeLike
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After a day of racing with the SP 21.5 fixed combo I’m more certain that it fills teh bill in 540. We also tried the Venom package today but found it quite a bit quicker – about a lap quicker than 540 so that’s no good although we will give it a few more runs as well just to be sure.
John the esc on teh ROAR list are what they want to use for their Sportsman class which is their new stock but not 540. naturally they have nothing to say about 540 – it is not an International class and even within Australia there are no regulations governing 540. We will need to do our own thing for that class. At the ORRCA level it might be best to just leave it at a hand out motor class. At club level we ned to cater for some different types of people – beginners – week in week out racers and probably even ex stock racers now who can’t cope with teh speed and complexity of teh new stock.
The Speed Passion stock race package is an easy to specify, easy to obtain (every Hobby Shop can sell Speed Passion if they want) and very close to 540 speeds and promotes very close racing. Anyway it’s very early days yet and I don’t think any club needs to rush into a decision, we want to get it right this time – but teh week in week out drivers are certainly keen to go with the SP combo from teh level of demand I am getting.LikeLike
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should be up to thedrivers who turn eveyweek and race the 540 class, should put it to a vote and use what the races want, unless your planning on racing this class you shouldnt get a say, so far i have found the sp combo easy as to use and guess what, im having fun again for me thats what its all about
cheers Brad Hall B2LikeLike
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Hi Guys,
I have bene testing the SP Combo along with a few other racers and i have found it to be on par with times i have been doing previously in johnson 540.
Up until i started using the SP Combo, i either was close to getting16 laps, just under or only just over 16 laps at Meakin Park. My times and laps can be seen on the Meakin web site, and you will find that i am no faster than what i was with the johnson 540. The major difference i have found is, i no longer have to clean the motors, i don’t have to worry about having an inconsistant motor, i have more time to concentrate on my set ups, and the best thing i get to spend more time socialising and helping other other racers.
My preference is to have a 21.5 motor with a non adjustable speedcontrol, i understand why people would like to have a speedy that can be adjusted, but for the new racer, i don’t think they need to worry about having a lap top down at racing trying to get the best out of their brushless system. I feel they should be concentrating on how to drive, improving consistancy, how to set up a car and how to enjoy them selves with out the additional pressures.
The testing of the venom system over the weekend reinforces why we need to select a system only and not have multiple systems. The venom system was much quicker, and by selecting a single system all racers wont need to worry about a different system being quicker..
I agree with Dave that we need to test further, especially in the hotter months to ensure the system is capable of handling the warmer weather. Only when this has been completed will we know for sure what is the correct system to use. I can say though at this early stage, the SP Combo is looking very much like the system that will do the job, and as Dave has said, any hobby shop can order them in or stock them.
Regards
B1 (Brad Palmer)LikeLike
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As an older new 540 racer it makes sense to govern the class for sanctioned events. Most newies, young or old,don’t care about racing for points the second they put the car on the track, and are happy to set simpler goals like finishing a race, making 10 laps instead of 9, when the good guys are getting 14 – 15. Then just being consistent becomes the goal. Running for points normally happens when you get hooked and become a member. I’ve seen new cars turn up at club events especially on a Wednesday night at Logan where there is more than likely an all in race for TC’s, with 10.5 turns or 17.5 turns running against the 540’s. A fast consistent grey can driver will get more laps in than a novice with a brushless and all the good gear and no skill. I would like to see untimed brushless and unadjustable ESC’s take off in 540/novice/21.5 or whatever it becomes, if for no other reason so that I could take more time listening to social chatter between drivers and soak in all that free information that just flies around the pit benches. Naturally if a new driver stood out that far he or she could be noticed race after race don’t you think other drivers would rally around and encourage them into another class. The rules fall into place pretty quickly when you get serious because everyone is in your face letting you know. Have a set of rules to go by for the ones who get serious from club level up but leave the door open so a newbie can have ago with “what ya brung is what ya race” on the day.
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re sp combo
What is the fixed timing 21.5 motor being tested ?
What is the fixed non adjustable ESC being tested please ?LikeLike
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Wayne
SP 21.5 fixed combo is the one heavy , B1 and B2 have been running.
We do need a lot more testing it would be nice to find two Combos are are close to 540 or something like the sp21.5 fixed motor and an old GTB just to see what they run like. Heavy if you have a motor i’ve got two GTB’s
ShaneLikeLike
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Wayne
technically it’s called
Speed Passion Cirtix Stock Club ESC
and the motor
SP Ultra Sportsman V2.0 21.5
Some of us will be running them at Logan on Wednesday night and also Saturday night if you wish to see them work.LikeLike
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I agree with many of you. The SP combo seems an obvious choice at this point in time. The lap times with the SP combos were so close, you could have thrown
a blanket over 4 cars. If the racing can be this close and consistant race after race, we could end up with a different winner in most heats and finals. My vote at this point in time is the Speed Pasion Combo. Would certainly make the racing a lot more rewarding for the drivers and more exciting for the spectators.LikeLike
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Tony what you are saying I agree with totaly as some of us newbees learn to drive and set up our cars with out having to find ways to get more out of a motor the racing will be very close and taking note of what others are saying more will look closer to running 540
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What about the new Tekin software in non adjustable fixed timing mode and the SP motor?
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There are plenty of esc that have a software that cuts out the timing and turbo features and signify that with a flashing led or whatever. They are still adjustable within punch and other profile adjustments. These may be all right – they are designed primarily to take the current crop of esc back a step to where stock used to be.
For 540 we are looking for a true spec class where there is no suspicion that someone has an advantage and with that in mind i think a specific esc with a specific motor is the best answer – and for the people that are talking to me (who are week in week out 540 drivers) a simple – no frills – no adjustments system is very much what is requiredfor the 540 inclusion.
So far I am very keen on the SP Cirtix combo that a few have been running and I am keen to see it included in 540 – not a replacement for 540. We will continue running this system on club days where we are allowed and on Wednesday nights as well. If you are keen to try it without buying one talk to me and maybe I can find a way for you to try mine.LikeLike
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Robert – do you use corally plugs to your battery or deans
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Either. I have a corally to deans coverter if needed.
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Rob I’ve got the gear from heavy for you
See you tonightLikeLike
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Put the SP combo in tonight at Logan and it feels very much like a 540. Thanks for the test Dave. The other ESC had issues with wiring to the switch. Be interested to test the motor with my SP v1.1 ESC to see how it stakes up.
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So Robert I’m a bit confused – what did you use and what did Shane use ?
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I used the SP combo. The venom had wires come off from the Switch.
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OK – so do you still have both teh combo’s or does Shane have them ?
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I have given them back too Shane.
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Well there are a few more of the SP combo’s out there this week so if they won’t let us play in 540 we have more than enough for our own class now – but hope it won’t come to that.
We now know that the combo is about the right speed – same as a good 540 but not quite as good as the freak 540’s – we now know that it is easy to set up and run with. What we don’t know and won’t for awhile is what the life expectancy is – I suspect that the motor will last a fair while but – we’ll see what time and usage reveals. Most of the guys who have them are so enthusiastic they are racing every week at least and some are racing twice every second week as well (Wednesday nights at Logan).
So so far it’s all good.LikeLike
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i agree heavy they have a lot of racing already and no maintenance, got to love that, makes for a lot of free time in the pits to socialise,think there is a few more guys talking about coming to join us, bring on bayside this weekend
Brad Hall B2
p.s you got nothing heavyLikeLike
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Ha Ha……………Brad Hall….You Got Nothing 😆 😆 😆
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I’ve got a near new set of 28’s – that’s something.
I don’t have a speed control and motor at this stage – Rat are you likely to be in the Archerfield area in the next few days ?LikeLike
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see you tomorrow phone me with address
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