STAGE 1
I am committed to testing a 21.5 motor with no timing adjustment using a speedie with no timing adjustments no punch no turbo no boost or anything else – the only adjustment is for brakes. The testing willbe for suitability as a addition to teh 540 class or as a replacement to the 540 class. The motor and speedie that I am testing with should be available for around $150 or $160 as a combo.
I have some results from my running of 540 at Gold Coast, Logan and Bayside with which to compare.
Last Saturday at Logan my best race with a 540 was 15 laps 6m7.339 my slowest result was 15laps 6m17.324with a fastest lap all night of 23.502
On Wednesday night with the 21.5 my result was 15laps in 6m11.897 with a fastest lap of 22.300.
I felt my car and my driving were at about the same level both nights.
On that brief result you could be tempted to say the motor/speedie combo is definitely in the ballpark, however, it is very early days and there could be more to come from the motor yet with gearing tests etc. I am veru much looking forward to continuing the test this coming Saturday night.
The combo is very nice to drive very smooth and no hard to handle bursts of power etc etc.
STAGE 2
For the next test I will use the same motor and use one of the open speedies with the no adjustments software downloaded – say the speed passion GT2. I’ll check it out for speed etc and also for ease of scrutineering.
Any of the speedies on the ROAR Stock Spec list should be the same.
If that works ok we will have a situation where people who want to move up to stock will be good to go.
Stories from the world of RC car racing
18 responses to “The 21.5 tests”
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Interesting to see the results i think 21.5 is the go , we willl b down for racing on sat night.
Cheers Shane and ChaseLikeLike
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You are getting stock and 540 mixed up Dave “Bursts of power” from a 540 😆 😆 😆
I would like to give that combo a run as well Dave
Regards
GaryLikeLike
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The other beautiful thing about it is you dont have to mess around with speedy settings ahhhhhhhhhh
Whats the cost of the combo Dave?LikeLike
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Sorry just put my reading glasses on lol thats a pretty good price.
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I knew you’d figure it out Vazzo – just so you don’t get confused in future it’s always the figure after the $.
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I’ll have to wait for teh results from Logan 5th June to be posted to make much comment. I can say my car was the second fastest car there last night and my gut feel is that the combo I am running at the moment would be a good way to go for the 540 class. I think it could run quite well in the class – integrated in the same way we did with stock a few years ago. Let those that wish continue to run 540 and those that wish to go brushless run this combo. In time the benefits of brushless will make it the popular choice.
I’d say from my test thus far that it is as fast as a very good 540 motor without the hassle of the cleaning after every run and the labourious running in process etc etc.
Cost wise it’s going to be about $165 now for a speedie and motor with the exchange rate the way it is and that could fluctuate a few dollars either way by the time we get this approved. Compare that to the cost of a second hand LRP QC3 ($100) and say 3 x 540 motors (you’ll need at least 3 to have a chance of a good one) $60 and you have the same cost.
Another option would be to go the route of a slower motor – say 25.5 and a open speedie but for me that just makes life difficult for 540 drivers – who really needs th hassle of having a computer at the track and all those settings to try to get right etc – this is a simple class for beginners and for those who want hassle free close racing – not technical nightmares.LikeLike
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Results are up Heavy.
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Looking at the results I did a fastest lap of 23.141 with the 540 motor and 23.046 with the 21.5. Given that the 21.5 was in my “good” car and the 540 was in a second hand car I aquired during the week that small difference could be down to friction or car handling etc etc.
Seems like a good option to me at the moment for inclusion in the class – should promote
1. Equal motor performance
2. Ease of maintenance
3. Removal of the Hoodoo around getting a good 540 motor
4. Fantastic close racing
I’m trying to chack out other brands at the moment to see if there is other sealed non timing motors that are available and other non adjustable speedies that could be used but certainly I am getting teh message from 540 racers that they would prefer one motor/esc combo that can be used.LikeLike
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Of course whatever motor we choose it won’t improve your driving (practice will do that) it won’t make up for a dead old battery and it won’t replace car maintenance and set up – it’s only one small part of going fast.
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dave,
when can i get the combo.
bradLikeLike
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How about the next Wednesday race meet
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No worries Dave, If you can have a combo ready for me for Next wednesdays race meet that would be great. From what i could tell watching the other night, the racing looked close.
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Hi Heavy
What kind of gearing where you running in the 21.5 car the other night at meakin ?
Was the motor getting very hot ?
How much higher could the gearing go with that combo ?
ThanksLikeLike
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I was running 3.41 and 3.32. I thought it was better with the 3.41 but the fastest lap was with 3.32.
The motor finished at around 50 degree which for a cool night wasn’t bad – left a bit in there for a hot day.
I want to try some more gears but haven’t had enough time yet – maybe next Tuesday night I’ll run a few more tests.LikeLike
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Hi Dave,
I am confused with the latest testing from Martin, can you explain what the options are and why there is now debate which system is going to be the best one to use. ????
regards
B1LikeLike
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I haven’t been able to watch Martins testing but I believe that he tested byesterday a 25.5 with a Tekin ESC. I believe that what the 540 drivers want is a cheap, easy to use, non adjustable package that promotes close racing and allows the standard 540 to be able to continue to race as well.
My personal opinion is that introducing the adjustable ESC with Turbo and Supercharger and all those adjustments to teh 540 class would be a mistake.
But I repeat I know nothing about Martins testing except what you can read on RCTech.LikeLike
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Personally, i think spec 25.5 motors with open ESC’s is a mistake for a 540 equivalent class. Here’s why (same info posted on rctech):
The question I think that needs to be foremost, is what is the point of the 540 (or equivalent) class.
540 has always been envisaged, marketed and organised as a class for newcomers to R/C to learn their craft, to have a single (cheap, slow) motor option, and with limited tuning options to ensure that racing can be close. It’s also been about maintaining affordable racing for those who think they can’t afford the faster classes
All of those reasons are jeopardised with an open brushless esc/25.5 approach:
– open brushless esc’s are expensive – upwards of $250 retail in an Australian hobby shop (where many newcomers will buy equipment)
– open choice 25.5 motors will get expensive if other manufacturers start producing them. today novak is the choice. if SP or tekin or LRP or Orion produce a faster 25.5, everyone has to upgrade or have multiple motors for different tracks
– open brushless esc’s lock the class into a power war. when one brushless manufacturer finds a secret software way of producing more speed – everybody has to either switch to that esc, or wait for their manufacturer to update software (already in stock people are buying multiple ESC’s and switching from one to the other depending who has the fastest software)
– open brushless esc’s are complex to setup, and complex to get the best out of the motor. some require the user to have a laptop trackside for fine tuning
– open brushless esc’s don’t give us a set speed. 540 racing has been around the same speed for years – performance only increasing slowly with battery technology. if we have learned anything from the current spec esc approach, it’s that open brushless esc motors will be much faster in a year from now than they are at present – so while 25.5 might be roughly the same now, in a year it will not
These are just some of the reasons I think we ought think very carefully about introducing an open ESC approach to our 540 equivalent class.
One of the driving factors seems to me to be that more than one or two people who have been regular stock class racers are wanting to move back to 540. What are the reasons behind that? If stock has become too fast for the average/mainstream club racer, we would be better to tackle that issue, than to turn 540 into the new mainstream club class, at the cost of a class for newcomers to learn their racecraft, basic driving, and care preparation tasks.
There are two claimed downsides I can see to a single motor/single esc class. The first is it cuts out manufacturer competition in the class. Given that 540 has been a single manufacturer class for years…..I’m not sure how this is different?
The second is the argument that somebody will work out how to program BL esc’s and go faster than their competition. This hasn’t proven to be an issue in the mini class that have been using a single esc/motor class all over australia for a while now (and mini racers are SERIOUS!). The skills to do so are not trivial, and not commonplace. And the difference would be obvious on track.
I don’t know all the answers, but I think an open esc/bl class is not a cheap, entry level, close, simple option. It’s the exact opposite of that.
That’s my opinion.LikeLike
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The final result of teh testing is that we have adopted the Speed passion v2 21.5 motor with the Cirtix Stock Race ESC at club level and call it 21.5 Clubspec – the Hobby Wing “Justock” esc is also allowed but not teh Hobby wing 21.5 motor.
ORRCA have now announced that this will be the official combo as well to replace 540 at the Qld Titles level.LikeLike
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