It’s an interesting time to be a “stock” racer at the moment. Main focus is on the speedie now rather than in previous years where flavour of the month has been on motors or batteries.
The latest generation of speedies are producing much more speed than anything we have ever had before – most noticeable on the straights but if the driver has his settings right then on the infield as well.
In the previous generation the LRP SPX was king but then along came Tekin with the 203 software and the SPX (and all the others including my Speed Passion) were left wallowing – now there is a titanic struggle from the others to catch and pass the Tekin.
Tekin RS Pro. It’s reasonably priced but then you need to buy the Hotwire which is the connection between the speedie and your computer. The latest software is v203 and it’s the one you want if you are going stock or super stock. Once you have the v203 loaded there are decisions to be made around such items as Timing advance, Push conrtrol, Timing Boost, Turbo boost, Turbo delay etc etc. There is plenty of advice around the net about these settings but some trial and error at your local track will pay dividends when you get a car that responds the way you want and is fast enough where you want it. I ran one of these in Tasmania at the titles and I am sure my car was fast enough and very driveable. Once you get the hang of using the hotwire, adjustments are very easy to make – the downside is you really need a computer at the track.
Black Diamond. Haven’t used one and unlikely to as, for me, it’s too expensive. Have watched others use it and, from what I’ve seen, and from what I’ve read, is no quicker than a Tekin and no more reliable. There is a school of though that it might be better on short (indoor) tracks.
LRP SXX Stock Spec. This is the next step after the SPX and promises great things, better than Tekin ? We’ll have to wait and see. The first production run suffered some minor problems and LRP offered to fix any that were sent back to them. One Brisbane driver has done this but hasn’t got it back yet. Then there was version 2 which Brisbane drivers now have and are starting to use and trying to figure out the complexity of settings etc. One of the drawbacks at this stage is that the LRP is not upgradeable and will necessitate buying a new one each time there is an upgrade or IF there are any upgrades. I personally haven’t seen one going fast in stock yet but I’m sure I will in the next week or so – faster than a Tekin ? I don’t know but I’ll be watching carefully. You can more easily change settings without a computer at the track. There appears to be some argy bargy about where to send esc for updating and about whether there is a version 3 or not.
SPEED PASSION. There has been a delay from Speed Passion getting out a software package to rival the Tekin 203. A small patch came out called 107 but it wasn’t quite good enough. Now there is a Beta (test) version around that drivers are able to download to their LCD Program Card (if you have one – I do ) and then to their GT v2.00 speed control. Once the programme (230 for 17.5 or 231 for 10.5) is in the ESC you revert back to the little hand programmer that comes with the speedie for adjustments there are 15 available adjustments at this point. This is good because it means you can easily make adjustment at the track without needing a computer. Speed Passion have called their boost system a Supercharger rather than a Turbo but I am assuming it will do much the same thing. Better than a Tekin? Well we’ll have to wait and see some of us have the programme loaded and are just starting to mess with the settings so give us a couple of weeks of fine weather and we might know more. Seems that from a marketing point of view having a delay getting the software right might be better than what LRP appear to be doing.
NOVAK. I don’t know what’s holding up the release of Novaks new esc but I believe it will be adjustable through a computer link like Tekin and SP other than that I know nothing, but I’m certainly not prepared to write Novak off yet.
If you are in the business of buying a speedie right now, which way will you go Tekin have some runs on the board, LRP and SP are showing a lot of promise and there are others to numerous to mention.
Good Luck.
There are 2 possibilities surfacing at the moment (1)to take stock and super stock back to true spec classes and (2) to abolish all motor and driver classes within touring cars and just have one class.
Speed Passion have just released a non adjustable speedie (can be adjusted for drag brake only) and there is a suggestion that this step back is the way forward for spec classes. With certain changes to motor rules (around timing) this should be a good thing. Don’t want to go slower I hear some saying fast is good. well have a look at the other proposition.
The fastest growing and numerically most successful class over recent years has been 1/8th nitro buggy. There is one class there – one size fits all – you can’t come and say I’m a novice put me in a seperate class, or I don’t want to go as fast as those guys etc etc. There is only one class and maybe, we should learn from them and just have one class. Run whatever motor you want and go do your best – operators could seed the first heat and then have frequent regrades during the meet. The speed of Nitro Offroad Buggies hasn’t detered many novices from getting into it – why do we keep using that as an argument to keep classes like 540 and stock in 1/10th onroad.
Somethings to ponder on a wet Sunday afternoon.
Stories from the world of RC car racing
71 responses to “ESC wars in stock.”
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Scott I agree… its not a great thing for spec racing… but that’s hardly what 17.5 is these days…
BUT is it REALLY that much different to the battery wars of not that long ago?… not really in my opinion and at least the software updates are free (or at least Tekin’s have been).
To be honest I don’t think there is a “stopping this”… the time for all that was early on before brushless became system of choice… and there WAS a time when it was possible to put the rules in place but everyone was blinded by hype surrounding BL’s advantages that it was all gung ho and get stuck in… now we’ve gotten into a situation we don’t like and everyone is screaming at everyone else to do something about it… but no one can come up with anything realistic because now that the market has seen the potential of what Tekin has done, every company and their dog is trying to get on the band wagon!
… and what really irritates me about the whole show ( and probably makes me sound egotistical) is that I remember having an almost exact discussion along these lines 5 or 6 years ago with the then organisers of the WA On-Road titles about their discussion with AARCMCC over whether or not letting BL race… the Novak SS had just started to make an impact and find their way into clubs, and I was aware of a fair number of more technical minded people in RC at the time looking at them and saying there was a huge amount of untapped potential in those BL systems and that there was a massive scope for adjustment and tuning once people started to explore it… and that just maybe BL shouldn’t be adopted “on face value” or at least should be kept separate from the brushed classes of the time… but that attitude was called negative and conservative and pretty soon BL was showing up everywhere and everyone was saying how great is all was…
… and now here we are 👿
I still maintain the only way forward now is to look at where we want RC car racing to go in the future, the technology that is currently available and the direction IT’s going in, because (in like so many areas) the sad fact is that we no longer drive the market , and then formulate rules that will get us there… but there is certainly no point trying to make the rules of what is, essentially, a bygone era force fit today or tomorrow…LikeLike
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Well frankly Adrian R the people I race Stock and Superstock with on a weekly basis aren’t complaining too much – in fact most seem to be prepared to chase the speed and are loving it. There doesn’t seem to be much stopping most of them from trying at least a couple of the new speedies – maybe there is no need to do anything
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Heavy… personally I am not actually complaining either… I am perfectly happy racing what I have when I get a chance… frankly I think the direction Tekin has taken is the best thing to happen since BL was introduced…
However a quick browse through most currently popular RC related forums will find at least one, if not multiple threads related to the situation the Tekin has “created”. I have even read in one forum related to VORTEC where someone suggested that Tekin/adjustable timing ESC’s be officially banned, though I can’t comment on how serious the suggestion was… it therefore seems to me that, while the majority of racing community of SE Qld may be quite happy, there appears to be a significant number elsewhere that are not.
Hence I chose to offer my opinions and some possible directions to explore IF people want to explore other lines of thoughtLikeLike
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Adrian I don’t have a problem with your opinion or your reasons for expressing it – far from it – that’s why I started this debate. On most of the forums the opposition is by a numerically low number – and they aren’t all stock drivers having a say.
I was the chairman of the Interclub committee in Qld back when we introduced brushless formerly to racing – one of the earliest bodies to do so – and we certainly didn’t forsee what would happen. We did have an early warning because in that first or second year we banned one particular speed control (Quark) from racing because it had features that caused brushless motors to reach much higher revs. Unfortunately neither the Interclub committee nor any other had the courage of their convictions to keep going down that path and the ban was removed the following year.LikeLike
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Is that what this boils down to though?.
Everyone seems to know the speedie situation is kind of, well weird and silly, it’s tricky electronics pushing ‘any’ motor to near mod speeds, but looking at the history of electric it looks like no one will ever do anything about it?.
I mean really surely all it needs is to either, limit batteries to like 3200 or maybe even less is Stock, or fixed timing ESC for Stock and SS?.
I went off and did reading elsewhere, not sure of the class details but elsewhere some places seem to at least be limiting batteries.
But then I guess in Au we also have this other thing, where for some reason if you try to enforce rules, people take their bat and ball, and go home…LikeLike
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💡 What about these new “LiFe” batteries? they are 6.6v so it would slow down the spec classes and in mod you can just go up to a 3.5t motor to get the same speed. I’ve noticed some of these batteries being approved by ROAR
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Bishop limiting batteries to 3200 will do nothing at all. They still produce the same voltage as a 5000 and we use less than 2000mah in a race in stock. Some prefer the smaller batteries allready as they heat up better and give slightly better performance. The batteries aren’t the problem the esc is the perceived problem.
Corey – worth keeping an eye on to see where that goes but it’s certainly too early to go there just yet IMO and we would have to give teh guys at least a years notice to change over.LikeLike
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Heavy, have you tried the new software in your SP yet, and if yes how did it go ❓
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Corey, it’s not so much the voltage but the way the speedie is delivering it in a non linear fashion. The old mechanical timing advance systems required a compromise of whether you would lose power at low or high speed.
I have a couple of nice pics for you, email me at beachbum(at)beachmums.com.au and Ill send them over.LikeLike
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Tony I have it loaded but haven’t been near a track yet – will be at Bayside for awhile this arvo hopefully, try it then have a 17.5 in for the trials as I have a abetetr feel for what they are like with the Tekin than any other motor..
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If we were starting from scratch and if everyone didn’t already have an investment in speedies and motors we could pull stock back to something like this – no adjustable timing on esc or motor, no turbo etc etc – retail around $160 in Brisbane for esc and motor.
Then we could run superstock as 13.5 which would be considerably quicker than stock and then we would have mod back to where it should be with a significant difference between it and super stock.LikeLike
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so a few big announcements in the last two days related to this discussion.
Firstly, US ROAR nationals will now include a spec class with a limited range of elegible eSC’s. ROAR are currently working with manufacturers to determine which will be legal (presumably those with no/limited capacity for adjusting timing on the ESC side. Info here: http://www.redrc.net/2010/04/roar-euthanize-the-bull-dog-paved-nats-update/
Secondly in Europe, after four rounds of the huge 6-round Euro Touring Series (ETS), organisers have announced that the stock class from this point on will only allow speedpassion cirtix ESC’s. racers can buy the ESC through the organisers for a discounted price, or rent them for each race meeting.
In sydney the Windsor club are trialling some spec options which will be just a little faster than 540, but again locked down (in this case to particular ESC/motor combo much like the mini arrangements (different combo, but same type of rules if you get what I mean).
This is a global issue, and lots of people are working on solutions.LikeLike
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Whatever happens let’s make sure that we end up with no more than three classes for electric TC – we don’t have the numbers to support any more – 2 would be better. How about (1) 540 and (2) brushless and that’s it – how easy would that be.
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here’s the announcement from ETS about their new spec speedo rules/arrangements:
http://ets.redrc.net/2010/04/ets-introduces-spec-speedo-for-pro-stock/LikeLike
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So will Europe go with one speedie and ROAR about to go with a approved list which way will Australia go – I’d bet on the ROAR list being approved if anything at all.
I’m going for 3 classes now
1. 540
2. Spec 17.5 (from the ROAR list of esc and no timing motors)
3. Open brushless (or EP PRO)LikeLike
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I like the basic list you have their Heavy…
I personally feel a list of approved ESC’s is better than making everyone buy the one brand… but thats just me…
I can see individual clubs might bring in motor limits that suit their membership for Ep ProLikeLike
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I think with the number of 540 drivers last night at Logan (a lot of them were usual stock drivers) shows that the local racer isn’t happy with all the speedie changes and money we all have to outlay to stay competitive. I am looking forward to having stock put back where it was when the brushless was introduced.
I guess speedie motor combos on a approved list that doesn’t change for a season or 2 would bring back the drivers skill over the equipment he uses. Closer racing and happier times.LikeLike
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Not sure you should read that much into it Robert – I certainly wasn’t in 540 because of any unhappiness with stock – I was only there as it was a special occasion promoted by a couple of the guys – not at all saying it wasn’t fun but so is stock.
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I have been reading a number of threads around with similar thinking but would suggest we need to look at what is needed to make RC more accessible to new starters without having to constantly change gear to keep up.
What I would like to see is the following:
A 21.5 fixed timing brushless with a basic ESC non changeable ESC’s to replace 540
A 17.5 or a 13.5 fixed timing brushless with the same limited ESC’s as used in 21.5 that provides more speed and a controlled stepping stone to a faster class where it is the driver that wins and not the one with the most money.
Mod / Open Where you can race what ever you want.
I know Logan did testing on 21.5 and decided not to proceed as the cars were over a lap quicker than the existing 540 but it would be interesting to know how they would compare with a basic esc and fixed timing.
I am looking at this from the point of view of someone from a smaller club (trying to attract new members) with classes that provide consistency to other tracks if members wish to travel. At the moment people get turned off when you say that to be competitive in stock for the ESC and motor you need to spend $400+ never mind the chassis, batteries, radio etc….LikeLike
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I just purchased a Speed Passion CIRTIX Stock Club Race speed control and 17.5 motor combo to do some testing with. This is teh speedy Speed Passion have released following the demand around teh world for a non adjustable ro programable speedie. I haven’t really looked at it yet but I’m led to believe that the only adjustment is to drag brake.
I don’t know if there will ever be a class for these in Australia but at around $150 for the speedie and motor they could be interesting – I’ll probably have an initial play with it tomorrow. It comes completely wired and with a 3 pin plug on the motor side and a Tamiya type plug on the battery side which will mean a little work for most people to deans or other plugs.
The motor is also non timing adjustable and comes with an interesting dust cover on the endbell – possibly useful for Offroad.
Anyway we’ll see.LikeLike
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