I thought this was worth a read, the powers that be in the States are trying to introduce a driver limited class as a beginners class and the thinkers in the industry are behind the idea as a way to grow the hobby. Unfortunately as ROAR only have any influence at National level it probably won’t help, it’s at club level where beginners need to be catered to and looked after with the aim of bringing them in as long term RC ers.
In Qld we have 540 as a possible beginners class and it could easily be kept that way by clubs moving the Pro 540 drivers on to another class – I don’t have a problem with 540 Masters if people are insisting they don’t want to move on for cost reasons etc. (except that I have a problem with the number of classes we offer already).
The worst thing that could happen to 540 (my opinion) is that it get changed to a brushless class. The technology revolution in brushless, especially in speedies is making “stock” a very hard class to race in – also very expensive if you want to keep up, and the same would happen in 540 if it changed to a brushless motor. A possible way out of that is to introduce the 21.5 motor with a control speedie without any profile changes if one could be found. This would however make it difficult for drivers in this class to move on to stock as their speedie will be useless in that class – unless we introduce a spec speedie for stock as well (as we should – again my opinion ).
So the classes would then be
540 (same motor as now or a sensored 21.5 off the ROAR list with a spec speedie). Limit 4000mah LIPO
Stock – 17.5 with a spec speedie. Limit 4000mah LIPO.
Super Stock 10.5 open speedie open LIPO capacity
Modified. – as now
That would give us a possible entry level class with limited speed and limited financial input plus no “flavour of the month” expenses. Then a step up class with similar features but faster, then 2 fast classes money no object.
By allowing 21.5 in 540 with no speedie controls we are killing any chance of a beginners class and opening the class to be as fast as stock was 6 months ago – too fast for most beginners and people with limited talent. (And using the Mini motor and speedie as has been suggested would make the class faster than stock).
You are more than welcome to make a contribution to this debate here but the rules are that any abusive comment will simply not be published, lets see if we can think about what RC needs rather than what “I” need.
Heavy
Stories from the world of RC car racing
48 responses to “The Soapbox”
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The only comment I have (and you know what my opinion is Heavy) is that we reduce the number of classes run at club meets and maybe even state level.
As pointed out already, we have 4 classes of racing in onroad in QLD at both club and state level. Yet we only have a limited number of racers to go around for any given meet. I strongly believe that we should reduce the number of classes available to make the competition better. Just take a look at the 540 challenge from the weekend, approx 35 entries in one class. The racers had to work to get into the top 10 (A final). Not just turn up and given automatic entry into the A final. And if we asked any of the drivers from the top 10 how they felt about being in the top 10 of 35+ racers, the answer would be that they earnt it and are happy with their achievement.
My suggestion would be to keep the current 540 class as suggested, stock (17.5t) and mod. A similar formula is used in offroad 1/10th EP and look at the numbers each class is attracting at any given club meet. It works (normally just stock 17.5t and mod).
Simple fact is…..we have a limited number of racers and if we want to earn our position rather than just turn up and also have a sense of achievement, we should look at reducing the number of classes offered in 1/10 TC.LikeLike
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As a prospective newcomer to the sport, the classes offered are extremely daunting. With little time on track at all (and with a brushed tt01), im not about to spend a grand on a rc car when i can barely control the one i have.
I had spent almost a full week convicning myself the 540 class would be great for newbies like me
but hearing talk of a possible 540 masters class made me realise i will be outclassed from the
begining.
I only stumbled upon this website to begin finding prices for an rc car i can in no way safely operate and will ultimately destroy.
Im am finding it harder and harder to comit myself to this sport. Just my thoughts, im sure other people find it easy to use 21.5t Brushless on lipos straight up.
Cheers,
TroyLikeLike
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Hey troy,
thanks for leaving your comment – food for thought for all who run clubs, and all those experienced drivers still running 540 when it should be left to those who are new to the hobby.
I want to say to you though, stick with it. It doesn’t take long to get to grips with driving the car, and the long-term rewards are worth the initial hard work. Lots of fun, years of enjoyment, plenty of great mates. and still the cheapest form of motorsport I’ve found.
I hope you make it down to your local race track, get racing and enjoy. if there is anything we can do to help, let us know.
cheers
scottLikeLike
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Troy, don
t stop. Come on down and have a go...... ;-) Join in the racing with the 540 guys, its a hoot. The trick is to use these race meets to better yourself. In other words just race against the clock and try to better your times every race. Soon youll be up the pointy end of the field….. 🙂
As for me, I also think that we try to cater for to many classes, my vote is for 540, Stock and Mod.
ding… 😛LikeLike
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540 as it stands, trying to convince everyone its a beginners class is a joke… I personally think that a true NOVICE class needs to be created with very tightly controlled specs… . maybe using something like VTA as an example… of course i don’t believe anyone will take that idea seriously..
If 540 is to be retained then somehow it has to be what its intended for, a beginners class… but a beginner isn’t necessarily a child, that’s an assumption made far to often when the debate crops up… that’s why ORRCA’s 16 year age limit failed… if some other means of progression is implemented then clubs NEED to enforce it… not be pansies about it and let the the current status quo return… sometimes you need to be cruel to be kind…
Its far to late to try and introduce a spec ESC into 17.5… of course it was unforeseen what the manufacturers would manage to do with them but its to late to try and correct for thatLikeLike
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With our change in Stock from brushed to brushless maybe we picked the wrong motor and maybe we should have picked the 13.5, a possible class line up could be Mod, 13.5 and Novice (540 Brushed) with Pro 540 running a 21.5.
At club level if the numbers a there run Novice and Pro 540 separate, if not run them together.
Super Stock 10.5 has been tried at club level many times in Qld and as yet hasn’t been able to get a foot hold, even after it been introduced as a State titles class it still hasn’t improved.
I think it would be easier to control a roll out than control speed controls, I think the horse has bolted there, besides I’m not for buying controlled equipment unless you can get good use from it.
At club level new Novice drivers should be started in Novice (with low turn motors discouraged) regardless of what motors in there car to judge there skill level, at this stage the clubs needs to explain the classes on offer, once there level is judged he/she can be then placed in the appropriate class.
He/she can then spend $20.00 on a grey can 540 or a lot more on the 2nd hand/new brushless system.
They can plainly see the progression in the classes and encouraged to move up the classes as they become better drivers.LikeLike
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It was great to see 38 540’s together last week.
We had 4-5 ex State Champs, the current state 540 and stock champs as well.
As a one off Team Event it could not be beaten. It is possibly the Hi light of the Year.
But entry level racing is a hard thing. RTR from Hobby shops are not to 540 specs.
Motors are all over the shop, bushed- brushless various turns, mid motor, front motor some even two motors. For every twenty cars Hobby Shops sell only 1 may see a race track.
Sales people don’t always know what they are selling. Yet mate she’ll be right it says its a 540 can.
You can race it its got round tyres, To bad that it’s a 17 turn drift car or brushless rally with 20mm ride height. Niether the hobby shop or the Newbie knows Race Specs nor do they care.
The shop wants a sale the Newbie just wants to go FAST.
Most racers don’t know the rule sets.
Two or three drivers at the V8 challenge had the motors wrong. Many didn’t know the weight.
540 class front runners have the latest chassis, the best brushed speedies, the best Lipo’s
and are running faster that most stock drivers.
Clubs must allow Newbies to Run RTR , it becomes hard to enforce strict novice rules.
If the Newbie with his RTR does become a Novice its a new chassis a new start new rules.
It a slow process from Newbie to Racer and i not decided on with way to go but we have found that when you enforce strict rules you loose the people who just want some fun.
ShaneLikeLike
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What a fantastic night the Holden v Ford Challenge was. It proved to me one thing. There are 3 types of racers.
a) The really serious, running at the pointy end, will I buy food or a new speedie, win if your good enough on the night racer.
b) The I’ve been around along time had a few wins in class, enjoy my racing and socialising side just as much racer.
c) The lets turn up have some fun, who cares about lap times and consistency, give me some more track time, I see marshalling as fun racer.
To someone like Troy, Mate come down with your TT01. My son was Bayside 540 champ with his trusty TT01 in 2008. He just kept turning up each race day and learn’t to get better and more consistent.. He’s happy to win, to finish well in a good field, or just beat Gerard (ha ha). He knew nothing about racing and I knew nothing about setup. Together we’ve learnt from some of the most willing to give away secrets types in South East QLD.You learn just as much on the track as you do in the pits and on forums like this. Besides now he’s retiring to concentrate on year 12, and I’ve decided to jump over the pit wall I’m gonna need a newbie to race against.because there’s just as much fun to be had at the back of the pack as up the front. Just ask my 9 year old, another newbie.
As for cost. well one school of thought is buy the best possible new/second hand gear you can lay your hands on and go and race, me I will take an old tub chassis Tamiya like your TT01, learn how to become consistent in that and move up to a better car and equipment when my skill level is better. Then presto, you have 2 cars, one for racing and one for a bit of fun in the street.
or
Spend bugger all, start carving out some lap times and race times to improve on. Simple.
My vote. Leave grey cans in and bring in regulated 21.5 sensorless brushless and controlled speedie.LikeLike
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the amount of classes is for sure detrimental to numbers in on-road.
the biggest class in rc at the moment only has one open division – 1:8 buggy. they are pretty quick and the gap between new drivers and good drivers can be pretty massive. But that doesn’t seem to matter when you have so many people racing as there is a broader spectrum of skill levels – new people can slot into the class and have people to race against no matter how good they are.
so imma go 1 step further and say competitive on-road racing should be stock and mod only.
clubs should then have a more open novice class where people truly can run what they’ve brung and get hooked on the hobby.
perhaps aiming to win a C final, then trying for a B final in stock is a better goal system for someone to have than trying to dominate 540.
have trophies for the top 3 in the B and C finals rather than adding extra classes so that people can win them that way…. you will find more people will have a chance of taking home a trophy this way.LikeLike
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John, controlling roll out will do nothing with the speedies we have now.
My concern is that if we move away from 540 we will have nothing for beginnersLikeLike
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On reflection, after reading again what I wrote and reading what others have written I guess it’s fair to say I originally climbed on the soap box to give my weight in opposition to the push to get rid of 540 in exchange for a brushless. Somewhere along the line I got sidetracked into talking about all the other classes as well.
I agree that we have too many classes in RC, especially in EP Onroad for the number of people we have to race.
I do though, think we need 540 (include RTR) for the beginners (I agree beginners are not age bound Adrian). Maybe stock and mod and forget 10.5 altogether – at Interclub and State level as well – which is basically the only time in SEQ that they are raced.LikeLike
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I think 540 still needs good drivers in it at all times so we have someone to catch and they shouldnt be forced out. Ive been forced back into 540 due to money issues.
I mean if newbs start in 540 with all relatively closely matched drivers and they are doing quite well and then after some months they decide to jump into stock they will get the shock of their rc lives lol when they come up against Clinton 😆 and the rest of the drivers at the pointy end of stock because they havent really raced against the more experienced drivers in 540.
I think 540 should remain grey can, I also dont think they should age limit it or even enforce that rule that you cant participate in the titles if you have come 1st, 2nd or 3rd in a previous titles event.
I love the hobby but strongly believe that drivers from stock or mod should not dictate who races in 540 or not, I’ve seen it happen all too often in SEQ in past.
I have too much going on financially in life to compete in stock or mod at the moment so 540 is my only choice. If I still lived at home with mum and dad things might be different. But I have a nasty mortage plus a wife and two kids to feed and dont particularly want to give up on this awesome hobby.
I wont even say thats my 2 cents cause I need it. 😆
Cheers
AdrianLikeLike
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You have a wife? With that head dude?
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I believe it would be better to keep grey cans.Raced in the V8 Challenge and had a ball ,one thing it showed me was that with alot older gear u can enjoy our hobby without the latest equipment.Its all about learning as we go and for me 540 teaches us the basics .540 needs good drivers so the beginners can try to get to the pointy end without having to spend a heap of money,which is the way stock has moved .I for one may return to 540 due to that fact
Regards,
Scott Perkins
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LOL! Toby, I dont think she married me for my looks mate 😛 😆
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Sadly looks like the battle is lost to keep 540 for the Johnson Grey can 540 motor, with Sunny Coast agreeing to allow 21.5 motors in their 540 class on a trial basis – 540 just became as expensive a class as stock. With some of the Sunny Coast officials also on ORRCA that looks ominous to me.
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Excellent so 540 will now probably develop a couple of “Untouchables” I’ve been speaking with guys in Sydney and the states and they have been telling me that they are getting some of the 21.5 motors up around the same speed as the 17.5 and same goes for the 17.5 as they are reacing similiar speeds to the 13.5 with the Tekin’s. Heavy, I might have to talk to you about that GAS car you have for sale mate 😆
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Actually if you want to spend $400 plus for a Black Diamond ESC and $110 for a V3 21.5 you can be up there with them as well. All jokes aside the Gas Tourer class has probably been one of the better classes over the last few years for lack of flavour of the month change and lack of big bucks needed to remain competitive.
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I too am thinking of going back to 540 for cost aspects as well.
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seems to me that some of the guys should just go to modified. you can still run a 3 year old esc (I do), only need one or two motors (start with a 6.5) and have heaps of fun going fast. it’s probably cheaper to run modified than be at the pointy end of stock at this point in time.
it seems to me that part of the issue for qld is that not enough of the “gun” stock drivers move on to modified…..and that means the “gun” 540 drivers don’t want to move to stock either. the progression of classes seems to stop at the jump between stock and mod.
but….we’ve written plenty on here about how easy modified is to access, and ways to make the jump affordable and practical…so no need to rehash that again. if you’re interested, enter “modified” in the search box on the right hand side and see what you find…
personally I think introducing brushless to the 540 class in the current climate of out-of-control ESC’s is a huge, huge mistake. the esc issue is a big issue world-wide, and i’ll be very surprised if there aren’t moves over the next 12 months to develop a more control spec esc. novak have already put such a proposal out in public (can’t find it for the moment, but read novak’s comments on spec bl esc’s here: http://www.rctech.net/forum/electric-road/351261-roar-fixed-timing-stock-brushless-motors.html#post6735689 )LikeLike
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i’ve got nothing against 540, we 110% need a class for beginners to run what they’ve brung… its where i started, back when the classes were 540, club spec (16×3) and mod.
the more a new racer has to spend initially, the less likely they are to stay in the hobby. the simple fact is more and more newcomers are going to turn up with brushless gear. it would be a shame for them to have to spend more money because of the racers taking the 540 class seriously.
i’m not singling anyone out, this is meant purely in general – the racer that would buy a black diamond esc to run 540 is the same one that would buy a heap of grey cans, dyno them and then use some elaborate break in method. surely this level of racer should be running stock.
if that’s a beginners first exposure to racing they will likely assume that it will only get worse as they progress through the classes.
540 isn’t an art form… it’s a place for beginners to get into racing.
i agree that you shouldn’t have to say who can and can’t race 540… because there will always be different circumstances for different people. but i wonder if it would be left more to the people it was intended for if it wasn’t offered at big meets. if there’s nothing riding on it, it would be taken less seriously. making for a better introductory class and also a better place for those who just want to race for fun at the club level.LikeLike
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If the grey can Johnson is to stay, then put a five year time limit on it, with a review in the
5th year to either keep it, or review it, dependant on supply. As for parity on the track. If you are going to control the motor then control the speedie and cap the battery capacity also. Confine it to a cheap brushed esc like a Tamiya TEU-101 for $50.00 – 65.00AUS or $30.00US from China. I’m sure there are others. Same time limit of 5 years. Keeps it affordable then driver ability and setup are more relevant than who has the most money to throw around on speed controllers from week to week. This also would help with events like the H v F where people dropping back to a 540 class don’t have to worry that the electronic gear has changed too much.
I believe if you had ten Mi4’s or Xray’s or Tamiya’s set up identically in 540 mode, and with the same radio gear, then handed them over to the same guys who made the “A” final at the HOLDEN v FORD meet, that the end result would have been pretty much the same. Track time and experience still count for a fair bit…LikeLike
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Reading all of the above ❓ Sounds like the only classes to race, are Mod or F-1. Driver against driver. Not $$ against $$. MMMmmm: 😥 😥 A bit like real racing, when you remove the mechanical grip, or reduced traction, like WET WEATHER, then the best driver shines. 😆 😆
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maybe the way to go Tony. Now to see what I could sell to get a MOD motor as I think the Speed Passion V1.1 LP can handle a MOD motor??? If so only need a motor.
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A Happy New Year To all racers. My two cents worth,I think Brendan has hit the nail on the head. Time limit, control the motor,speedie,battery, no other mods to the motor. IE chemicials or any other enhancihg products, even put a max rev limit on them. I am sure there will be some one out there who could test a motor for us and give us a read out to produce to any club if someone thought a car was a couple of laps up on the rest of the field. This would help with cost and the good drivers would hold their own. It would also give the newbie a idea on how he is really going, and he could work out what he is doing right or wrong
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Hang on, just let me pick myself up back off the floor and onto my chair so I can climb onto this soap box too as I’ve read some sensible posts regarding the “development”, “novice”, “beginners” class, call it what you wish.
Firstly, it should be clearly emphasised that 540 should never be extinguished. It is an avenue into our sport to allow newcomers with their hobby/semi-race and first purchase and I’ve never read anywhere that 540 should REMAIN. I’ve only heard of suggestions from those who won’t want acknowledge the 21.5 solution that 540 brushed is no longer… David, that’s why I was disillusioned and gave up on the debate elsewhere.
The debate should be focused on creating a clearly defined separation of who’s who in the 540 class by introducing an entry level brushless into the class to see what the motives are for those drivers who wish to compete in the class. Yes, without question the brushless cars will have more pace and streak ahead of the beginner 540s and they should be approached and moved up to Stock
It’s a good thing to allow newcomers good reason why the 21.5 are faster so they can race in amongst there own kind at there own level, it can clearly separate those who wish to throw $$$ at what is meant to be an affordable or beginners class. Surely, they are using advanced timing systems in stock already so that’s where they should be.
Gently.. gently putting it, and for those who know why I entered the debate elsewhere, it would give me a lot more confidence in EP RACING if the class limited ONE or TWO 540 cans per year ( I HATE MAKING RULES). That way, once the brushes are worn out, and they don’t wear that quickly naturally, it’s up to 21.5 in preparation to move up a class because the motives are clearly not to be there because it’s affordable within the scope of a newcomer. It’s likely they are there because they can throw an affordable amount ruining perfectly good motors. Correct me if I’m wrong, gearing up a motor doesn’t wear brushes, it generates heat and cooks the ESC. By the time a newcomer realises that more surface area on the BRUSH will allow for more current to pass, they aren’t newbs anymore.
Totally agree with Scott about more people running in MOD, we have a GTB+3.5 but chose to run a 6.5 + NiMH to give us a well planted and steady car, make it more affordable to run and allow us time to learn the craft and in control while we get out of the way and we were one more car in a very lean PREMIERE class, which should in truth be the biggest class with drivers fighting to get into it.
Seems to me we have issues at two ends of the spectrum, no one wants to drive MOD because there are excellent drivers there and hard to get past, great place to improve imho. And at the other end of the spectrum, there’s a bunch of lowly novices being used for prey, limiting growth in our sport.
So to recap, I really hope that the 21.5 digital proposal separates the true motives of runners and those who truly wish to run 540 “AS IS” remain to create an honest RC development class for the newcomer. For those who are going to keep pushing gear to the point where “SMOKE” escapes… To move up to a class with more power and focus on working the chassis and not setting a tone of destruction for the sake of performance. I really hope MOD starts to fill and we’d be very likely to step out of MOD and move to where we should be in SuperStock (Due to England Park layout).
PS:
GAS Touring:
David, I’ve been saying for a long time now that we sparingly use our GP Pro Tourer because it’s more costly, transmitting that much power to the ground is costly. So we race 1HP Gas as well, and without doubt there are untoward happenings in that class as well, just as there is in the PULL START in GP and that issue really gets established GP racers worked up too. We accept whole hearted that whilst we enjoy our TG in GAS touring, we have NO HOPE IN HELL of achieving anything without blowing up our engine or resorting to … well… enough said… It’s not all good there either.
PPS:
Q: Will a 21.5 be hard on a chassis to the point of it being more expensive on chassis/belts/tyres. Or will there still be smoke pouring out of the speedies?
Sincerely,
h
“Use the force Luke!” – AKA your left index finger.LikeLike
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What ever happened to the 380 class????
That can be a beginners class???LikeLike
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Looks like we’ve been gusumped. Both Logan and Bayside have apparently decided to conduct trials of 21.5 .
The 540 King is dead Long Live the 21.5 King. ( I suppose )LikeLike
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As long as ORRCA leave this years titles 540 grey can hand out thats fine. Maybe they should trial 25.5 instead??
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it doesn’t matter what motor wind they trial vazzo, unless the speed control situation is managed, the motors are not the issue.
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Vazzo, I believe that the Qld Titles for 2010, and The Masters for 2010 will still be 540 and the Interclubs for 2010, but I’m not on either committee so I really wouldn’t know – just a guess.
Certainly, IMO, there will be more people staying in, and coming back to the class now than ever before – wonder what they will call the class now – there’s no prizes but what’s your best guess.
21.5 (boring) ?
Junior stock (unlikely) ?
Novice (can’t wait to see a novice get hold of the transmitter with a 21.6 and a Tekin 😆 😆 )
Beginners – no ?LikeLike
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Well done Bayside and Logan. I am under the impression we want to get more young, inexperienced , older ( as their reflexes have slowed) and not so talented persons into our sport. The cost of running anything other than a 540 would soon kill any or all of the above
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Doug, it’s Sunny Coast and Logan trialling 21.5 mate, not Bayside 😕 But like both clubs have stated it’s a trial and not concrete so we shouldnt all start bagging clubs for trialling it.
Heavy I reckon we call the class “Pensioner Pro” 😆 😆 😆
Scott your spot on about 21.5, it’s the limits the speedy can push the motors to. Does anyone know the min power reading for the 21.5 motor ie 17.5 is 65, 13.5 is 45 etcLikeLike
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About the speedy conversation on whats better and whats not for stock i would just like to say that yesterday running stock at bayside.after a month or so in mod shows how petty stock has become with every one thinking a speedy will get them on top all i can say is there dreaming the guys that where on top yesterday was not because they where running ”Tekin ” speedy its just they are better drives so all i can say is to stock drives is grow up and save your money because the Lrpspx is still a good speedy my lap times prove it.All i think is the problem is a lack of understanding on how the speedys are ment to work.Feel free to have ago at me because in the end ill put a spx back in and do the same lap times to show that the spx is as good or better.
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Why not make 540 / 21.5 run a control tire?
If everyone had to run a treaded HPI tire with less grip than sorex, then the speedy wouldn’t matter if they cant get the power down.LikeLike
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Sorry Vazzo
I only know what I have read here in Quote January 23 2010 @9.13pm ( Heavy) Sorry to Bayside if it has caused any inconvenience. Still stand by my statement aboveLikeLike
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My information is that Trialling of 21.5 will be done at Bayside as well – which makes some sense if the other clubs are doing it.
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I trust the committees of these trial clubs will visibly witness which drivers need to move up to Stock urge them strongly to do so and do the right thing by the 540 brushed runners and other drivers who need more time to develop in the current class.
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Don’t hold your breath Harry, it’s never happened in the past and is unlikely to happen in the future.
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Heavy, something really special must have happened the first day you set your car on track, you’re still here with us and would love to know where I can read up on your beginnings in RC as Scott is a well rounded gentleman now… I hope the same of my sons.
I’d also like to also add to this forum the notion of who makes the changes.. When Obama was elected, my first thought was.. “Do 200 million people think one person will change the world, or can one person lead the 200 million that can!”
So it’s entirely up to us to nurture our sport, many have made it special for my sons and you know who you are. For those who have young sons who want to go fast, the reality is best they do it amongst the FAST experienced runners, who can mentor them, pass cleanly, and gently teach the humbling fact that dreams don’t come cheap or easy, they take time.
There’s a lot to be gained by experienced drivers driving (not racing) in the class for development of newcomers. It’s an aspect of our sport that really shows that there’s a time for racing and a time for enjoying that which we should have all experienced in during our beginnings.
As we’re just getting over the novice hump (2 years week in week out), there’s a lot to be said for those experienced guys who drive in a novice class to set a good TONE and they are the shining stars in our sport. I was chatting with Brendan Podlich, who in his own right has secured outstanding contributions to RC.
Our first ever club meeting in Novice meant that we were the only cars on track. Brendan and “Cavey” quickly grabbed their SPADA’s threw them on track and began to pace us around the track in close haul racing, teaching the boys that the spectacle of close racing far outweighs the win. Jeff Hamon was doing it the other night, the mod crew have been doing it since Luke stepped on track and I saw Doug Norton doing it at the Northern Rivers.
Ultimately there are many people in our sport trying to build up numbers and it all starts with first impressions. The hardest part for me to return to our sport is to somehow convey to newcomers the fact that in order to enjoy the long term benefits and recover the initial outlays, one has to attempt to remove the WIN when there’s more to be gained than that.
Guy’s first QLD titles, “Dad what do I do if Peter Jovanovic comes up behind me?” After the event, in awe of his skills and realising that he wouldn’t be in the same heat, we had a quiet father son chuckle as reality sunk into my son’s young mind. Priceless lesson, gently and enjoyably taught!
It was a little slower with Luke, and the memory of seeing his eye’s sparkle as he placed a number on his car for the first time was yet again, pure gold! Whether one comes last or first. drivers should appreciate each other, thank each other for the participation and contribution we all make. For those who just want to take home a trophy, in the great words in the movie “Cars”.. “It ‘s just an Empty Cup!” and that’s all it will be until you fill it with fond memories.
I truly don’t care what the motor is, it’s the motive that counts. Separating those who’s motives are to win empty cups from beginners, and those who wish to lace humble medals with golden memories…
Written with a glad heart…
hLikeLike
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There has been nothing official mentioned about trialling 21.5 at Bayside. Anything that has been said is not official.
I personally think it would be a big mistake to go this way and I will be strongly objecting to this.
Ultimately R/C racers push hard for something then 6 months later look back and scratch their heads “now what happened to that?”. It happened with mini class and brushless and it will happen with 21.5.LikeLike
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I have made it clear in these posts that I disagree with going brushless for 540 as well but it seems there is a majority in favour (85% was the Logan vote I believe).
You might be right about Bayside I was just reporting what I have been told by a club official.LikeLike
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I think many suggestions already made work in some way, it makes sense to maybe merge Stock and SS, into a middle ground perhaps, 13.5T is what I think the US guys run in their stock class?, maybe they made the better choice.
And if you can’t limit/control the ESC, maybe eliminate/ban variable timing or ‘turbo’ functions that seem to give such huge advantages to those who can afford to use them?.
Or if you greatly limit battery size , can’t you stop those ‘super’ features working?, I thought many work by somehow dumping huge current/mah into the system, take away the huge batteries and don’t you take away some of the tricks in the system?.
I can’t see why guys ‘want’ to drive something as low power/old as 540, but if that sticks around the novice only makes sense, if anyone else wants to run it, a control ESC with 21.5T also makes sense, with a sensible battery limit, then I guess both can be run together if the numbers are not there, making 3 primary classes in electric.LikeLike
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I can’t help but always come back to the 2 main fundamentals of RC:
1) The fun element… “How much fun is this!” The I’ve just goto give it a go factor.
and
2) Awesome amateur thru to professional RC racing.
Clubs should fundamentally support both and I am yet to hear a solid arguement as to why this would not be the case.
Over the years, there has always been cost associated with RC, that’s undeniable (as with any hobby/sport) and how expensive something is will depend on personal circumstances… agreed. However, what I do see, is an attempt of manufacturer’s to offer budget kits, electronics and parts… good and inversely ➡ clubs all becoming more and more full blown racing oriented with everybody getting everything they can to be the next Masami H. or Andy Moore. This is a definate mis-alignment.
The manufacturer’s would be atune to shifts such as the GFC (Global Financial Crisis) and so are lot of people I know perhaps sensibly with reduced disposable incomes. Clubs too should keep this in mind, and where possible resist the urge to just become ‘more and more’ expensive in the type of class specs that are supported.
* If 21.5 is going to cost the average newcomer more money, then is this really a step in the right direction???
* Isn’t esentially a brushless motor an advancement in technology? Should this be part of a low-priced entry level class???
* Re: ‘Those in 540 who obviously shouldn’t be there, should be taken aside and encouraged to move upwards’…Although I understand the notion here… well it just won’t work! Why? Because again when would this occur? What would be the underlying rule? Eg. “He has been in 540 for 2 yrs now, time to move him up” . Well again, that would fall back to a rule. (Eg 2 yrs) If there is going to be an ‘idea’ about moving people up, well it simply has to be a Rule to work fairly.
* An idea could be to:
a) set a side 2 heats (a net race time total of 10 minutes) for beginners, if there are enough numbers
b) OR run entry level concommitantly inside the “540 Regulars.”
I mean getting down to the nitty-gritty, should people be using ‘tyre-warmers’ and ‘motor-coolers’ in 540???
If time constraints are an issue of course.540 could be split into 540 Entry and 540 Regular – but they are run together, kind of like Group A & B in rally.
Whatever can be done to keep 540 fair, low-priced and competitive should be done, especially now more than ever.
In addressing a driver from another class, who has moved back into 540 from another class, or who has been racing for 12 months or more, than they should be referred to as a 540 Regular (or in quoting Vazzo, 540 Pensioner Pro 😛 ). If they are under 12 months racing experience, or are under 12yrs old, then perhaps they could be 540 Entry.
IF and only IF these 21.5 brushless motors become the ‘norm’, then there needs to some form of tamper-proofing (laughs… as was the aim in 540), there should be some form of control speedo something AND there will still need to be some facilitation / distinguishment of newcomers running 540 motors so that they are not disheartened when everyone else is doing 5000rpm more than them in the same beginner class… which would be absolute madness… unless of course we just outlaw 540 motors altogether… again madness.
With all of this said, to cater for all, diversification is key 💡 . I personally believe that the likes of F1 is the best thing to happen in SEQ recently. This puts driving skill back on the agenda and allows another avenue for driver progression, rather than 40 people just in stock, and the same faces in 540 again.
As for GP Tourer (<1hp), again, this is another class that has its own competitive level and yet is one of those class that helps prop up the banner that should be out the front of every track… "Welcome all."
My best meets, strangely are not the one's where I have placed well… but are the one's where I have helped a newcomer repair their front end so they can get back out there and race again!!!LikeLike
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I reckon the Soap Box might surpass the “Stig” for popularity 😆 😆
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You know I read a suggestion someone else made, and did not think much of it at first, then thought it ‘may’ be an interesting idea…
Rather than “540 Pro” type classes, make 21.5T the new “Stock”, then make SS 13.5T.
Then perhaps 540 can be run with Stock at some clubs? (depending on numbers), I don’t know, but many are saying right now there is just not enough speed difference between the brushless classes, and too much of a jump from 540 up to Stock.
But with that sort of drop in Stock, not quite so much in SS, it maybe closes the gap from 540 to Stock, keeps the real speed in SS (good for bigger tracks), and still the mad speed into Mod?.LikeLike
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If it aint broke dont fix it.
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To close this discussion as far as ActionRC is concerned – I ran a 21.5 at Logan for 2 race meets, known to and watched by club officials. At the first meet I was doing lap times quite a bit quicker than I was ever able to do with a 540 and quicker than the good guys on the night. I blew up a motor playing with ratios so there is $110 to add to the cost argument.
At the second meet the 21.5 continues on it’s winning ways so much so that the officials at Logan decided to finish the tests and have decided to stick with 540.
At Bayside I don’t believe there is any intention to change at the moment and I don’t know what is happening at Sunny Coast re their test.
RIP 21.5 the old grey motor lives on.LikeLike
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